I have been getting assaulted by readers over at Sweating the Big Stuff for my opinion on coupon sharing so I’m hoping I have a safe haven here with my beautiful Thousandaires. Let me set the stage:
Daniel wrote a post “Using Personal Finance to Make Friends” where he tells a mystical tale of bestowing financial savings upon a damsel in distress. Translation: He used a 30% off coupon at Gap, then turned around and handed said coupon to another woman in the store who was about to pay full price for her items.
Not only did Daniel give the coupon away, but he purposely found the person with the most items, thus ensuring he was saving that person a large sum of money. While most of his readers praised him for his generosity, I scolded him for his immoral behavior. Some people thought I was joking, but I truly wasn’t. Here goes nothing.
Daniel estimated she had about $100 in merchandise. If we take Daniel out of the equation, as if he or the coupon were never there, that woman would have paid $100 for her selections. She entered the store on her own free will and chose her items, intending to pay full price.
Then Daniel comes along and gives her the 30% off coupon, and now she pays $70 for the same merchandise she was willing to pay $100 for. Daniel is directly responsible for Gap losing $30 in revenue, and for the woman having an extra $30 in her pocket.
Would you consider it a “good deed” if he had taken $30 out of the register and handed it to the nice woman with a handful of clothes? I call that stealing. The results of what Daniel did are no different. In giving away the coupon Daniel’s actions were legal, but I don’t consider them morally justified.
What if I was angry with Gap for some reason and wanted to see their profits suffer? I could pose as a customer, print off hundreds of coupons, and go hand them customers who are about to check out and pay full price. It would reduce their profits by hundreds or thousands of dollars and it wouldn’t increase sales by a single penny.
It is clear this action would be morally reprehensible. It is also the exact same action Daniel took, with two minor differences; the scale of his actions was smaller and his intent was to help the customer, not hurt the company.
Scale doesn’t change morality: Murdering one person is bad. Murdering 100 people is worse, but both are still wrong.
Intent doesn’t change morality: Here is a famous quote. “I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.” -Adolf Hitler
I’m not saying coupon sharing is as bad as murder, and I’m not comparing Daniel to Hitler; I’m proving a point. I also want to make sure it’s clear I don’t think Daniel’s actions were illegal; I just think they were immoral. I also think Gap made a bad decision in issuing a coupon in such a manner that this situation exists, but creating a scenario that makes immoral behavior easy doesn’t make that immoral behavior any more acceptable.
If it were me, I would have taken that coupon somewhere else in the mall (like the playground where dad sits with the kids while mom shops) and dropped it. That way, someone could pick it up and the coupon could serve its intended purpose; to give someone a reason to shop at Gap who wouldn’t normally go.
Today’s Thousandaire Question: It’s hard not to have an opinion on this. Was Daniel morally justified in his coupon sharing, or did he effectively steal from Gap and give it to the woman in the store?
P.S. Daniel, thanks for sharing your story and providing the foundation of this interesting philosophical topic.
Kevin McKee is an entrepreneur, IT guru, and personal finance leader. In addition to his writing, Kevin is the head of IT at Buildingstars, Co-Founder of Padmission, and organizer of Laravel STL. He is also the creator of www.contributetoopensource.com. When he’s not working, Kevin enjoys podcasting about movies and spending time with his wife and four children.
Hmm. If the shop doesn’t take the coupons when they’re used (thus allowing for situations like this to happen), then they shouldn’t be surprised when it does.
I think it’s pretty borderline – I wouldn’t have the balls to do it myself – but I think it’s kosher. Gap sets the rules, Daniel played by them.
Thanks for the comment eemusings. I definitely agree that Gap is setting themselves up for this to happen and it was a dumb move on their part. I still don’t think it’s right though, just because it’s permissible within the rules.
Slavery wasn’t always against the rules. Women weren’t allowed to vote for a long time. Those were rules, but I don’t think anyone reading this believes those rules were moral.
Slavery wasn’t allowed by the slaves, it was imposed on them by the rest of society. Likewise, women didn’t vote to be denied the vote. The GAP issuing coupons that work in such a way as to hurt them is substantively different, in that the institution being hurt is the one making the rules. This may or may not change the situation *enough* to change the morality of the relevant actions, but it’s a clear and salient difference.
what about all the bloggers who share coupons codes and links to coupons, are they thieves too? I disagree with your thoughts, and I think you are just trying to create drama.
Sharing coupon codes is a corporations dream! People looking for coupon codes almost certainly aren’t going to pay full price for anything, but they will be a paying customer once they find the code. Using coupons to drive business traffic from people who wouldn’t normally shop there is the whole point.
Oh, and I am not trying to stir the pot. I truly think it was morally wrong.
So I’m assuming this was the Gap, Inc Give and Get coupon. By using the coupon at any Gap, Inc store, there will be money donated from each purchase to charities like Big Brothers Big Sisters. The emails sent to Gap, Inc registered users encourage the sharing of these coupons by entering your friends emails and sending them a notice from Gap, Inc. I don’t know for sure, but my guess is the revenue lost is made up for with the tax break they get on their donation to charity. The coupon is reusable at all Gap, Inc stores and I’ve actually been encouraged by Gap, Inc employees to share it with a friend. Given all of that, I don’t think I’d feel terribly immoral about giving the coupon to a friend. However; if you read the fine print, the coupon is non-transferable. So if you want to get all technical about it, you shouldn’t give your personal coupon to anyone else. Still…since it’s a generic, purposefully designed to be reusable coupon…I don’t feel too bad about handing it over.
Ah ha! Non=transferable. Although it’s not an effective means of preventing the transfer of the coupon, this paints the picture even more clearly. It says right on the coupon not to give it away!
Thanks for the research CityFlips!
Non-transferable but also encouraging the sharing? Also, I did this right in front of an employee, but it’s nice to know.
Had I given my coupon to my girlfriend, is that another bad tranfer? What if I knew she was going to get an umbrella there regardless. Does it matter who it is? Or is ‘non-transferable’ simply non-transferable.
http://lacrossetribune.com/business/local/article_6af30488-bb8c-11df-84b2-001cc4c002e0.html
“Why would a manufacturer put this wording on coupons that it explicitly encouraged me to give away to other people?
Transferring a coupon, from a legal standpoint, refers to much more than simply handing one to a friend.
The transfer manufacturers seek to prevent involves three areas: duplication, distribution and compensation.
If I photocopy a coupon or I scan a coupon into my computer and then print my scan of the original coupon, I am transferring that coupon from one medium to another. This duplication is prohibited.
And, if I took my (now illegally transferred) copies of the original coupon and started using them or sharing copies with friends, I would be distributing an illegally transferred coupon.
And if I went one step further and decided to sell those (illegally transferred) copies of coupons, I would be receiving compensation for transferring them.
If you’re not doing any of these things (and you shouldn’t be!) you’re not illegally transferring coupons.
Feel free to swap, trade and share your coupons with others. Manufacturers do not prohibit this and, in fact, many of them are delighted if you do.”
The Gap where I shop has their employees handing them out to shoppers! They encourage you to use it! Because if maybe you weren’t going to shop at all, but saving 30% at least you’re buying something.
Plus, they give you back the coupon so that you can use it at their sister companies Old Navy and Banana Republic, or come back to the Gap as many times as you want as long as the sale is on.
I don’t think that it is immoral at all, and I doubt that any employee at the Gap would mind if they observed him handing it over to the lady.
Interesting. At least in that store, it sounds like they want every single person to use the coupon. Which makes me wonder: why didn’t they just mark everything down 30% and eliminate the coupon altogether?
Hmm even more interesting. It sounds like they definitely didn’t want to PREVENT people from using them.
They weren’t handing out the coupons at the store I was at, but clearly the non-transferable line isn’t enforced (or even encouraged?)
I think this clears me of any wrongdoing…right?
I don’t think it clears you of wrongdoing, so much as I’m curious if the CEO is aware of this store’s actions? I’m wondering about the moral permissibility of that store manager’s actions. Again, if they wanted everyone to get the deal, they’d have just done a storewide sale.
lols, obviously Kevin is not in marketing.
I see both sides of the story and agree with points made. However, I think even as a Gap stock holder or employee, I’d be fine with this going on. They do these promotions/coupons as a way to sell more. They still make profit and they get people in the store and also purchase more than they would’ve otherwise. They know this type of thing happens but honestly I don’t see any difference in giving it to someone while in the store or outside of the store to a friend or family member. Let’s say on your way out, a friend of yours called and mentioned they were going to shop there too, would you not share the coupon with them? Chances are had you known prior, you would’ve just lumped the purchase into one to save your friend money too. Perhaps it’s wrong to share any savings with anyone. Who knows. Great post though and conversation piece! 🙂
While I can see where you are going with this. If Gap minded the sharing they would have made the coupon code unique. Would you consider that dishonest? Also as eemusings said, if Gap didn’t want the possibility of coupon sharing to occur they would have relinquished the coupon from Daniel. I sometimes get store coupons that would say for me and for a friend. I don’t give it to a friend I sometimes use it for myself.
Also, I think there is a high probability that woman still spent from your example $100. That is what she was comfortable spending before the coupon so with this coupon she probably went back into the store to find more stuff. If that is the case, GAP still got the $100 from her.
If the woman went and picked out more stuff, it still means she was getting more merchandise for the same price. I’m sure the company would prefer this to her getting the cash off her purchase, but I still don’t think it changes the right or wrong.
It sounds strange but the idea doesn’t bother me since Gap is a corporation. If it were a mom and pop shop, I might feel different. They should be making the coupons unique, and/or marking them with a “VOID” after use.
This I can agree with. If Gap didn’t want this to happen, they should have done better to prevent it.
Is it possible they wanted this to happen?
If they did not want the coupon used again the store should of taken it from the first user and disposed of it. Kudos to the guy who gave it to the lady to save money!
I hadn’t ever thought of it this way…I do the same thing as Daniel everytime I shop at Kohl’s. A guy did it for me a few years ago, I signed up for their email program, and I take my 20-30% off coupons with me. I then pass them off to the person in line behind me. I always do it directly in front of the cashier, just like the guy did for me, and no one has ever did anything but smile.
I assumed that if I help make their customers happy, the customers are more likely to return or sign up for their email program too…so no, I don’t think it’s immoral. I think stores that don’t take the coupons are hoping you pass them along, otherwise they would take them when you pay like other stores do.
I agree there can be lots of potential benefits in making customers happy. I just don’t know if it’s the customer’s place to take on the role of the store in giving coupons.
I think people are misunderstanding the term “non-transferable.” It does not mean that you can’t hand it to another person. It means you can’t transfer the image, such as by copying, scanning and printing,etc. Just from a common sense point of view, there is never an issue with me getting a coupon in the mail and giving it to my neighbor, or any other stranger.
I’m no lawyer, but this sounds right to me. However, maybe it does mean “handing the coupon to another person” if the store wants to enforce it, just to prevent my hypothetical situation of someone trying to maliciously hurt the company.
Stores frequently give Friends & Family discounts that specifically ask you to share them. Each month, I get 2 Justice coupons in one mailing – they say One for You, One for a Friend. Clearly, Daniel just made a very good friend. I usually take both of my coupons to the store and share it with someone else.
What it does, for Gap and Justice, is let someone in on the fact that signing up for their mailing list provides coupons. Thus, they will likely do so themselves and end up spending more money next year when they begin getting coupons in their mailbox every month.
It was win-win for everyone – Daniel got to feel good about helping someone, the customer got to save some cash and the store probably gained a newsletter subscriber (or several, if others in line saw the exchange).
Again, when they mail you “one for a friend”, they are most likely expecting you to give that to a friend who wasn’t already inside the store ready to make a purchase.
I do see there can be benefits though, even if you give the coupon to someone in the store.
Don’t you think the store marks up its prices to compensate this coupon that is availabe for use so are they really losing money? I don’t think so they are making it or they won’t offer this to its shoppers.
I doubt there was a markup specifically for this coupon. Prices are always marked up quite a bit, so they can offer this and still turn a profit. However, there’s nothing wrong with charging a lot of money if people are willing to pay for it.
Kevin, my family calls me an old fashioned fuddy-duddy when it comes to these kind of moral judgments-very conservative.
And as much as I would like to call Daniel a thief, and an amoral %&*%$#, I think what he did wasn’t amoral.
If he had knowingly used the coupon twice himself, or made copies, then send him to hell.
But with the store giving him back the coupon, then what he does with it, imho, is his business, as long as he is not profiting from it!
But I do love the conversation this has generated. The stories about rampant cheating in high-school and college makes you think these type of morality discussions would be extinct. So thanks for asking the question!
And I think I know Daniel well enough (though we have never met) to know he won’t have ptsd after this!
Thanks Dr. Dean. If it is “wrong”, it’s definitely a very minor infraction, but I love the philosophical debate. And Daniel has been a gracious target (especially since everyone is on his side!)
You be crazy. The end. 😉
Yeah. I don’t really see it as stealing but I do acknowledge your point.
Maybe white stealing (like white lies). I’d love someone to hand me a coupon when I’m about to buy something. 🙂
What I think might help your case is the fact that if companies don’t prosper as a whole because of this coupon sharing, post profits and so on, the economy fluctuates based on their earnings, and yadda yadda yadda slow growth economy.
That being said, companies hand out coupons to be used. I think a lot of companies would rather you use a coupon for 30% off but spend the 70% anyway, just because their profit margins are pretty high in a lot of cases
If companies saw it as a big problem, they wouldn’t hand out those coupons.
I agree they want the coupons to be used, and
I’m sure the coupon drove enough business to compensate for this $30 “loss”. Again, it all comes down to the handoff from Daniel to the stranger; is it Daniel’s place to do that?
I know this discussion is way past, but i just googled “coupon sharing ethics” and this came up. I don’t like how you keep saying “$30 loss from the store,” Clearly, its just less of a profit, but I doubt they lost money on the transaction. Anyway, what if she had said “cool, now I can buy that shirt over there that I had thought I couldn’t afford,” Would it still be morally wrong?
Kevin – In the last part of your post you make the statement that what you would do (and by this I assume you mean the moral thing to do) is to take the coupon elsewhere, and give it to another person (I don’t see any moral difference between giving it to someone else and purposefully handing it to them) in the hopes of them going to the gap and spending money there they wouldn’t otherwise. This means that you see nothing immoral with the sharing of the coupon, just the person who it was shared with.
The difference you see then, is whether the coupon is used for its intended purpose, of encouraging new customers to go to the store (or maybe getting them to spend more than they would have otherwise).
Does this make you immoral when you use it as a returning customer? Does it make you immoral when you look at the flyer, decide on an item to buy and that the price is acceptable (say 100$), but then find a coupon for 30% and use it anyways? You are not buying something you wouldn’t have otherwise (using that coupon for its intended purpose. You are ‘taking 30 from the stores register and putting it in your own pocket’.
Stores put out those coupons in the hope that they will get new customers or cause repeat ones to spend more, but it is not immoral to use one otherwise. They know when making them that a certain percent of people will use them for items they would have bought anyways, and they will get a certain number of new customers and overspenders, and they are okay with this or they would not have made the coupons this way.
Assuming the earlier posters (Ira and Leslie) are correct about the meaning of non transferable then there is nothing wrong with handing it to someone else in the store, and if they are wrong, then you would have been equally morally wrong in purposefully dropping the card for someone else to use.
However, it is not morally right to say (as other posters did) that it is okay to share the coupon just because the gap didn’t make it difficult or impossible to do so. If they had specifically said on the coupon ‘only to be used by one person one time’ or something similar, it would still be immoral to share (either with someone in the store or how you would have) even if the gap did not retain the coupon or make the coupon codes unique and good for one use only. They could have decided it would be too costly to make unique coupon codes or retain the coupons (although I don’t see how this could increase cost). Stealing is not right just because an item is not tied down or guarded.
Thanks for the opportunity that allows me to flex my philosophical argument muscles. I have not had much opportunity lately, and I thoroughly enjoyed reading and writing this.
I will definitely subscribe to your blog and check back to this post (which I’m sure is at least partly your purpose in writing articles such as this) but I would not be immoral simply to take my enjoyment from it and then leave. 🙂
I want to thank everyone for replying. I think every has made some great points here and it has made me rethink my opinion.
I still think what Daniel did was immoral but I need to clarify why.
I only think it is immoral for someone who does not work for the company to share a coupon with another person when that second person is already checking out.
I don’t think it’s immoral to tell anyone about the coupon because that could promote more spending. I don’t even think it’s immoral to tell someone about the coupon while they are still shopping, because the coupon could make them want to buy more. I don’t think it is immoral for the store to offer to coupon to the customer as he or she is checking out because it is their prerogative to offer whatever discounts they want.
It is only when a non-employee gives another customer a coupon at the point where that customer has very little or no chance to continue shopping and the coupon has no chance to promote more spending.
That’s how I see it. Thanks again to everyone who commented!
PS. I totally agree with your point about the toilet paper. There is something very wrong with hanging it so the end goes under.
Also, despite your intention that I only be able to view your ‘thank you for commenting for the first time thread’ once, I have bookmarked it, and viewed it at least three times. When I’m having a bad day, I might spend a lot of time going to the page, closing it, and re-opening it, just for the joy of doing something that you seemed to be enjoying preventing me from doing.
Ohh, and in case you misread the intent of this or my previous post, I do not mean them as a personal attack on you. It’s all in good fun.
I completely disagree! If a company produces coupons, it is not immoral to pass them along.
You seem to be defining “immoral” as costing The Gap extra money without bringing them more business. What the heck does that have to do with morality??? If a company has set up a coupon and coupon policy, there’s nothing immoral about following their coupon policy. The transferable-non-transferable is a separate issue, since Daniel didn’t nefariously break that, AND the employees allowed it.
The only “immoral” use of coupons is using them in a deceptive way, such as photocopying them or atempting to trick a store into letting you use more than you can. There is nothing immoral about following a store’s coupon policy and saving someone else money, so long as you are working within the policy the store set. It is not my, Daniel’s or anyone else’s “moral” duty to make Gap money. Last I checked, that’s a corporation’s job.
Sorry, coupon sharing is certainly NOT stealing (a legally punishable offense) or morally wrong (unless you are using coupons in a deceptive/unintended way).
It isn’t immoral at all. I had this happen to me last year at old navy. I was walking in the store and someone handed me a 30% off coupon as they were walking out. It isn’t a use once and done coupon. They handed the coupon back to the customer so it then becomes fair game. I used it then handed it off to someone else when I was done. In the end the people that had the coupon probably spent more money then they originally planned to spend. I know I did. I spent more then 30% so they turned a profit from it.
So if I walk into GAP and see some shorts that I am willing to pay $50 for and then look at the price tag and see that they only cost $20, should I pay them $50? Is it morally wrong to take them for $20 when they are worth $50 to me? Would I be stealing from the GAP?
I think not. If the company is willing to take the coupon and give the woman her clothing for $70 instead of $100, the company made that decision.
Why not share coupons, I would. I don’t consider it stealing, the company gave it out and everyone could get it. If u don’t want people to share, don’t send coupons out.
“taken that coupon somewhere else in the mall … and dropped it”
So littering is morally better than coupon sharing? I don’t htink so.
I truly appreciate this post. Really Great.